S05E121 Two Plastic Surgeons' Guide to the Best Sunscreen Choices - with Guest Dr. Lawrence Tong
The battle against premature aging begins with a single, crucial step—applying sunscreen daily. But with countless options flooding the market, how do you select one that's not only effective but also something you'll actually use consistently?
Two seasoned plastic surgeons, Dr. Sam Rhee and Dr. Lawrence Tong @yorkvilleplasticsurgery, cut through the noise with clarity that only comes from years of treating facial aging. Unlike many "dermatologist-recommended" lists that rarely consider practical usability, these surgeons deliver straightforward guidance grounded in both science and real-world application.
We dive deep into the differences between mineral and chemical sunscreens, exploring how UVA rays (the aging culprits) penetrate clouds and glass, silently damaging your skin even on overcast days or during your daily commute. As Dr. Tong soberly notes, "Once you get beyond a certain amount of sun damage, you cannot reverse that. No surgery, no lasers, no creams, no peels can fix that."
Beyond reviewing traditional favorites like La Roche-Posay and Elta MD, the conversation ventures into emerging alternatives from Asian and European markets that utilize advanced UV filters without the endocrine-disrupting concerns of conventional chemical options. These innovative formulations promise the cosmetic elegance people crave without compromising protection or environmental safety.
The best sunscreen is simply the one you'll use consistently. Whether you're bothered by white cast, concerned about chemical absorption, or seeking something that works seamlessly under makeup, this comprehensive guide helps you navigate options aligned with your personal priorities.
Ready to transform your relationship with sun protection? Listen now to discover how this small daily habit creates profound long-term benefits for your skin's health and appearance.
#SPF #Sunscreen #SkinCare #SunProtection #PlasticSurgery #HealthySkin #AgingGracefully #BeautyTips #UVProtection #DailySunscreen
#PerformanceEnhancement #HealthyLiving #GymLife #CrossFit #SportsNutrition #FitnessJourney #BotoxAndBurpees #podcast @botoxandburpeespodcast
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S05E121 Two Plastic Surgeons' Guide to the Best Sunscreen Choices - with Guest Dr. Lawrence Tong
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00]
Sam Rhee: All right. Welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees. I'm your host, Sam Rhee, and I have with me my very special guest, Dr. Lawrence Tong from Toronto, Canada. You may have seen him on our other podcast, uh, three Plastic Surgeons and a fourth, which, uh, unfortunately is going to be on hiatus for a while.
And so while, uh, that podcast is sort of. Limbo. Um, I thought I would bring on LT as he is affectionately known, um, to talk about a couple topics. Um, I've known LT since we were residents. We trained together. He was my chief, uh, at University of Michigan. He is probably one of the most, he is one of the most talented plastic surgeons I know, and he is also a Canadian, which means he right now is probably a lot. Less controversial than say maybe [00:01:00] some of us Americans here right now. But anyway. Alright to the topic. Our topic today is five best facial, SPF sunscreens. And why would you want to listen to a couple plastic surgeons talk about sun sunscreens? Well, I'll tell you why, because when I was looking up sunscreens for myself.
I noticed that there were a bunch that were quote, dermatologists recommended, which is great. However, when I looked at them, three of them are ones that I really don't think are that awesome if you have certain considerations, uh, that are important to you in regards to your health. So I wanted to recruit another plastic surgeon, uh, to talk about this because I think in some ways we, uh, we do see similarly a lot of patients that have.
Tons of problems in terms of facial aging. We manage facial aging. We, we do, uh, obviously face lifts, neck lifts, brow lifts, eye lifts. And in doing so, we also give a lot of [00:02:00] recommendations in terms of how patients can minimize aging, how they can slow, prevent, treat some of these issues. And, um, in some ways I think.
We might be a little more practical than some of the dermatologists out there when it comes to finding something that works in terms of a sunscreen that is best for you.
This show is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. It's for informational purposes only. Treatments and results may vary based on the circumstances, situation, and medical judgment.
After appropriate discussion, always c the, uh, advice of your surgeon or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding medical care and never disregard professional medical advice. Or delay seeking medical, medical advice for something in this show. So, um, why do we need sunscreen?
It's one of those, uh, things that is obvious, but maybe the details about it are not so obvious. So, Larry, uh, let's talk a little bit about SPF sun protection and what [00:03:00] sun, uh, sun exposure does to our skin.
Lawrence Tong: All right, so sun exposure is, uh, ultraviolet radiation. And that can have, um, effects on the skin that are, um, undesired. And basically when we're talking about, uh, ultraviolet rays that affect the skin, we are usually talking about, uh, UVA and UVB, that's ultraviolet A and ultraviolet B. And, uh, they're, they're different because they contribute to different types of changes to the skin.
So UVA is a longer wavelength, uh, ultraviolet, uh, Rhee, and it penetrates deeply into the dermis. And this is the one that causes, uh, photoaging, that is wrinkling, loss of elasticity and age spots. It also contributes to formation of skin cancer and creates oxidative stress, which is, uh, creation free radicals.
So what that means is that if you are, uh, exposed to [00:04:00] UVA for, um, a cumulative period of time. You will start looking older. And I think it's very important to, um, to stress to everybody that once you get beyond a certain amount of sun damage, you cannot reverse that. No surgery, no lasers, no creams, no peels can, can fix that.
So it is very important to, uh, preserve what you have and protect yourself, uh, against the sun. So anyways, UVA. Um, is also a, a type of, um, radiation that can penetrate clouds and, um, and glass like in, in a car. So for people who think that if it's a cloudy day, they don't need to wear sunscreen, that's, that's false.
It will, it will still affect you. So even on days where it does not look sunny, it is important to wear, uh, sunscreen. The other type of radiation is, uh, UVB. This is a shorter wavelength and this. Uh, primarily affects the, [00:05:00] the epidermis, which is the skin surface. This is the type of radiation that causes, uh, burning, um, of the skin that, um, gives you the sunburns and, uh, this does not, uh, penetrate, uh, as much, but, uh, this, um, can, sorry.
This type of radiation is more important for causing, uh, skin cancers. So both of these, uh, types of ultraviolet radiation are harmful to you. And, um, you know, as plastic surgeons, we do not recommend tanning of any type because in the long run you're gonna pay for it. You're not gonna be happy with it. In the short term, when you're young, you think nothing's gonna happen, and, uh, it makes you look better.
But in the long run, it, it's not a good thing. So, uh, it's very, very important to stress, um, protection from, from the sun, uh, for the short term and, and for the long term.
Sam Rhee: Absolutely. And I think a lot of the tanning salons use primarily UVA, [00:06:00] so you don't necessarily feel burn like you do because there's very little UVB, but in terms of. Aging, as you said, in terms of skin cancer risk. It's, um, it's terrible, terrible for your skin, as you mentioned. And so I think for everyone, uh, sunscreen use has to be sort of part of your daily regimen.
It's, uh, don't feel like this is something you need to, uh, not wear on certain days, like you mentioned because it's cloudy or because you don't see a lot of sunlight, like you will ex experience more sun damage than you think even on a day where. You don't see any bright sun, so for sure that, uh, wearing of daily sunscreen should be a must for everybody.
And so that's why finding the sunscreen that works for you, the best sunscreen, honestly, is the one that you're gonna wear every day. It might be the best rated, it might be awesome and everyone loves it, but if you don't like that sunscreen and you don't wear it, then it's useless. [00:07:00] So let's help you find a sunscreen that works.
For you. Um, there are really two types of skin protectants here, mineral sunscreens, and chemical sunscreens. So let's talk a little bit about mineral sunscreens. What are the mineral sunscreens, Larry, that, that, uh, that are offered?
Lawrence Tong: So in general, mineral sunscreens are sunscreens that, um, reflect or disperse the light that comes, uh, to your skin. And, um, you know, these are mainly ingredients like zinc oxide and titanium dioxide. Um, the advantages of mineral sunscreen is that they work immediately once you put 'em on. And they're good for sensitive skin.
There's, uh, less irritation and allergic reaction, and it's FDA recognized as safe and it gives good UVA and UVB uh, protection. Um, for environmental concerns, it's typically safe for marine ecosystems because some of the chemicals in, uh, the chemical sunscreens [00:08:00] have actually been shown to be harmful to, to, uh, marine ecosystems.
Uh, there are some. Um, concerns about mineral sunscreens and, uh, Sam if you want to discuss those a bit,
Sam Rhee: Yeah. The one thing is that, that people hate is that white pasty look like, and I know that, uh, a lot of parents will slap, uh, mineral sunscreens, like you said, titanium dioxide or zinc oxide on their kids because they don't care what their kids look like. They just look like these white balls of powdery white.
Paste on them. Um, but they won't use that for themselves because it looks crappy. Uh, it's thick. Uh, it can be greasy. It's hard to put on because, uh, of the texture. And, uh, if you sweat or if you just kind of physically wipe it off, it, it, it, you lose that protection. So I feel like I have used mineral sunscreens quite a bit in the past, and I, I just feel like.
It's that those cons, [00:09:00] and especially in terms of the white pasty texture, turns off a lot of people. Like I know my daughter, my wife, they will never use, um, a mineral sunscreen just because it just makes 'em look like a ghost.
Lawrence Tong: Yeah, and it, and you're exactly right, it's mainly relegated to to children. Um, but there are, you know, we'll talk about it later, but there are hybrids and, and different formulations of the, uh. Of the mineral sunscreens that make them a little bit more palatable.
Sam Rhee: Yeah. Uh, so let's talk about chemicals. Sunscreen. So there are five major chemicals that are used to block ultraviolet radiation and, uh, they all have terrible names that I can't ever remember. Avobenzone Oxybenzone ate no. So Octinoxate, homo salate, octe, uh, salate. And so all of these are chemicals that block ultraviolet radiation.
And the biggest problem, which you mentioned, [00:10:00] while there are a couple big problems, so one of them is that they have. Endocrine disrupting activity, which can result in hormonal changes and um, even birth defects in, uh, some observational studies. So these are the type of chemicals which also are, as you mentioned, not friendly for ecosystems.
They are toxic to corals and two of these are banned in Hawaii, us. Uh, Virgin Islands and Mexico because of that. And those include oxybenzone and, uh, OCT, uh, octinoxate. Um, so most sunscreens don't include those two, but the other three, homo, Salate, avobenzone, and Salate are still present in a lot of sunscreens and they are still considered at moderate or, um, at some risk in terms of.
Endocrine hormonal disruptive effects. So, um, how do you feel about chemical sunscreens and what do you recommend to your patients in terms of them?
Lawrence Tong: Well, [00:11:00] basically, um, you should, you should try to tailor the, the sunscreen to whatever the patient's needs are. So, uh, one of the things that is a, is a pro with the chemical sunscreens is that, um, um, it, it just looks better when you put it on. So if somebody is conscious about, uh, their appearance, then you're probably gonna head towards a, uh, a chemical, uh, sunscreen.
Uh, but if you have sensitive or reactive skin, then you're probably better suited for mineral-based sunscreens. Um, and. You know, like you said at the beginning, the one that you're gonna use is the one that's going to give you the best, uh, protection. And if you, um, have, you know, concerns about environmental concerns, a, a mineral based formulation, um, reduces the ecological impact.
Um, but you, you want to have a sunscreen that has what's called, uh, broad spectrum protection, um, that [00:12:00] when you hear about SPF, SPF rating, uh, that people talk about is that it only applies to UVB. So, um, when you're using a sunscreen, you need to use, um, one that's designated as broad spectrum, and that will cover both UVA, uh, and UVB.
Um, and with the, with the chemical, uh, sunscreens, you have to apply it. Uh, 20, about 20 minutes, half an hour before you actually go into the sun because they don't work immediately. So there, there's a number of, uh, factors that are used in deciding which sunscreen, uh, to use. And Sam, um, I know you have, um, a list of, uh, sunscreens that have been dermatologically, um, recommended and I, and I wonder if you could go over some of those and how you feel about them.
Sam Rhee: Yeah, so let's talk about them. Um, you're absolutely right. Uh, the best sunscreen is the one that you use regularly, and I have used chemical sunscreens my whole life. [00:13:00] Uh, I like them because I don't like the pasty look. I've tried the pure mineral sunscreens and they just don't look awesome. Um. Oftentimes I will just weigh the benefit risk about chemical sunscreens and like you said, the, uh, benefit of having them not look terrible on me and the ease of use.
I just like spraying them on, or, you know, applying a stick to my face and it's, it's, I. It's good, I'm good to go. But as you've mentioned, there are a couple, let's talk about the ones, uh, but I think we're gonna have a couple alternatives that I think now have come out which might actually provide the benefit of a chemical sunscreen without all of these concerns that people have raised about endocrine disruption, reef safety, uh, all of that.
There are two that are purely mineral based that dermatologists have recommended in general, and if you like these two, you're probably. You should stick with them. I think they, they [00:14:00] work great. Um, I've used one of them and I think, uh, they're better than most of the mineral sunscreens out there.
Um, the two that I've seen are laroche Poe ant an Helio's mineral tinted sunscreen as PF 50. This is a pure mineral. Um. Uh, sunscreen, zinc oxide, titanium dioxide. It's, uh, slightly tinted to help minimize that white cast. And it's, uh, ideal for sensitive skin. And I've, I have tried this one. I like it. Um, I still, the tint, it doesn't really work perfectly for me.
Um, but out of all the mineral sunscreens out there, I think this one is reasonable.
Lawrence Tong: So I'm curious when, when, well, I've never used that before, but, uh, what does the tint look like? Is it supposed to be less white?
Sam Rhee: Yes. It's like slightly brownish I guess, but I kind of have brownish skin and it doesn't really match, so it, it looks off on me like I look. Sick [00:15:00] or something. I don't know. I don't look healthy. It looks a little odd. Um, the other one is, uh, vanicream mineral sunscreen, SPF 30. Uh, and this one is, uh, I supposedly, I haven't tried it, but supposedly ideal for eczema or reactive skin.
It's dye dye-free, fragrance-free para paraben-free. And it's also pure zinc oxide. And so it, you know, I think that that probably. Works better for some, uh, sensitive skins. Uh, the other thing it does contain is ceramides for barrier repair. And I have used lotions with and without ceramides. And I would say for some people, ceramides caused them to break out and for other people, um, they're totally fine with it.
Uh, I think it really de. Pens, like I think CeraVe or Sara, I don't know how you pronounce it, has ceramides. And I've used that a lot in my practice, uh, like post-treatment. And some people just break out with ceramides. So I think you should [00:16:00] try it, see if you like it. Um, the zinc oxide formulation might be a little bit more, um, easy for your skin if, if you're someone who tends to break out.
Lawrence Tong: Yeah, the, the vanity cream is a brand that we actually used on our kids, and, uh, it seemed pretty good. It did make them look a little bit white, but you know, they're kids who cares. protection is important.
Sam Rhee: That's right now the three that the dermatologists have recommended in general. Um, now these three are both, um. Mineral plus chemical sunscreen combinations. And the first one I have also tried is ELTA MD uv, clear Face Sunscreen. And this is both, uh, a mineral plus chemical. Uh, it has micronized, zinc, and niacinamide.
Plus, uh, OCT, uh, octinoxate, um, in a seven point a half percent formulation. And it's very nice in the sense that the zinc is micronized, so it's less likely to have [00:17:00] this like pasty texture to it. Um, that. If you like niacin, uh, niacinamide, it is for a lot, a lot of people anti-inflammatory. Um, if you are prone to acne or rosacea, it can be helpful in terms of calming the skin.
Um, but, uh, and they say no white cast, but I mean, like, that's all relative. I think I have a pretty dark complexion, and so it, it does lighten my skin when I put that on there.
Lawrence Tong: Yeah, I, I've used the ELTA md, it, it, it does, I mean, I, I think all the sunscreens to some extent give you even the chemical ones. Uh, give you some sort of a whiteish cast. You just have to take some time to sort of rub it in. Uh, but the Elda MD is a, is a, is a good product.
Sam Rhee: Yeah. Um, now the other two I have not tried. The first one is super goop and they have two types a. Every single face, watery lotion brand, and then an unseen sunscreen, uh, brand. And both [00:18:00] of these are pure chemical sunscreens, no mineral to it. And that's why people love it because it's a clear gel. Um, people have used it as a makeup primer.
Um, it. Uh, can layer under makeup For a lot of people, it doesn't feel greasy. It's very lightweight because it has no mineral component to it. Um, and so a lot of, um, people in the beauty industry, uh, favor this type of. Uh, sunscreen it, it does have four of the chemicals in there, avobenzone, homo Salate, Octa Salate, and Octa Octocrylene, uh, in various percentages.
And then the other one is Dr. Idris disco block, I dunno where they come up with these marketing names. Uh, and this is, uh, both a, um, this one is a combo Mineral plus, uh, avobenzone, homo Salate, Quillin, and Salate. Uh. They, it also con, uh, contains some hex resorcinol also, supposedly it might help with melasma and hyperpigmentation.
It's a [00:19:00] whipped formulation, so it's very, um, light. Uh, I haven't tried these two.
Lawrence Tong: Me neither.
Sam Rhee: Okay, so, um, I mean, people love the super goop. I'm not a makeup person, so I've, I know I don't put makeup on my face, but like I said, if, if you feel like that one is the best in terms of application, in terms of using every day, then you should use it.
Um, now, uh, some application. Very quickly, let's talk a little bit about application because I am one of those people that will do it once during the day and then forget to put it on later, and I probably shortchange myself when I do that. So what are the general rules in terms of how we should be using sunscreen on a daily basis?
Lawrence Tong: So number one is you have to put enough on your, on your face or um, on your neck because. Um, even if you have the best sunscreen, and it's a high SPF, if you don't put enough, it's [00:20:00] not gonna give you the, the amount of protection, uh, that you use, that you want to, that you want to use. So, um, about a quarter of a teaspoon is what you're gonna use, uh, for the face and neck.
And if it's a chemical sunscreen, uh, you want to use it about 15 minutes, uh, before you go into the sun. Um, so number one, put the proper amount, putting more is better than oh. Better than putting, uh, an insufficient amount, number two, uh, reapplication. So, um, to be safe, you should be applying every two hours when you're outdoors.
And also if you get wet due to swimming or sweating or, or wiping your face, uh, after you eat, you know, with a napkin, you should, um, reapply. Um, and then, you know, you should use something every day. Like I said before, UVA penetrates clouds and glass. So when you're driving, you're, you're gonna have the effects of, uh, [00:21:00] UV radiation if your face is not, uh, protected.
So, uh, sunscreen should be thought of as something you're using every day, not just when it's sunny, not just when you're, you know, going outside. So that, that's how I would, uh, recommend
Sam Rhee: Yeah, even on cold days, snowy days, just make it part of your daily regimen and then you don't even have to think about it. It's just like brushing your teeth or something like that way it's, it's not a thing where you're like, oh, it's sunny. I'm gonna put it on today. Just put it on every day. It makes it, it just makes it so much easier.
And, uh, if you're worried about vitamin D deficiency, um. Normal. You know, studies have shown that people who use sunscreen have normal vitamin D levels, but if you are freaked out, just take supplements like 99% of the world does right now anyway for vitamin D and, and you'll be fine. Um, so let's suppose you don't like the mineral sunscreens and you're freaked out about the [00:22:00] chemical concerns.
Well, what can you do? And fortunately there are now newer. Sunscreens available that have not been fully approved in the United States yet, but are used throughout Asia as well as in Europe. And these are newer UV filters, uh, chemicals, which, um, do not have the. Uh, endocrine disrupting effects as far as we know in terms of the studies that have been completed.
Um, or, and they are not reef toxic or damaged, uh, marine ecosystems, uh, as our current US, uh, approved sunscreens are. And, um, and a lot of these are very, are formulated to be very. Uh, kind and, um, uh, sort of glowy. If you've ever seen some of these, uh, commercials for these sunscreens. It's amazing. It's almost like the skin looks, um, [00:23:00] like it's boun, you know.
Uh, popping off of the screen because of the texture. Um, so I will mention two, which I just ordered, and I'm going to try, uh, and hopefully they will be awesome for me. The first one is, uh, beauty of Jo Sun Relief Sun, which is a Rice and probiotics formula. Um, this is available, I, I did order it on Amazon.
It's a creamy lotion enriched with. 30% rice extract and fermented probiotics. Uh, it's supposed to leave a satin glow with no white cast and the, uh, chemicals involved are, um. Veal A plus veal, T one 50 and tenor M. And these are photos, stable, low absorption UV filters that have been approved both in Asia and in the European Union.
Um, the other one I'll just mention, well, I'll mention three really quickly. The other two, which I haven't, uh, tried either Round lab, birch [00:24:00] juice, moisturizing sunscreen, uh, has birch sap, which I have no idea why it would include birch sap, but it has that. And then, um. Skin 1004, sent tele air fits sunscreen plus, which, uh, actually this one has a mineral formula in it as well.
Uh, so it probably might, um, uh, have a little bit of a white cast. You're gonna have to try it out and see what you, uh, what you think.
Lawrence Tong: Well, the names of these just roll right off the tongue, but uh, you know, if you ask me anything that's sun protectant makes my skin look better and has rice, I'm all for it.
Sam Rhee: That's right. I, I eat rice almost every day. I have no problems putting a rice product on my face. Um, so in closing, Larry, uh, well, let me ask you this. What do you use right now for your, for your sunscreen?
Lawrence Tong: Uh, right now I use a, uh, skin Medica [00:25:00] product, uh, that we sell it in our office. It's an SBF 50. I actually, uh. I don't recall exactly what the ingredients are, but I believe it is a, is a chemical sunscreen, and that's, that's what I use every day. And, uh, you know, I carry it around with me if, if I'm going out, um, biking or doing some sort of outdoor activity so I, I can reapply, uh, as needed.
Sam Rhee: Yeah, you have some of the best skin for a plastic surgeon I've ever seen. I will say that like I, my a my skin ages terribly, and I'm gonna be much better now in the future about wearing sunscreen. But you've always had, uh, you know, uh, that Asian glow to you that, uh,
Lawrence Tong: You're making me feel uncomfortable then.
Sam Rhee: that has
Lawrence Tong: Thank you though. No, I'm just kidding. Thank you very much. Uh.
Sam Rhee: um,
Lawrence Tong: It is, you know, it is something that, uh, that I, I try to really not go in the sun as much as possible and, uh, [00:26:00] you know, a lot of it's just genetics as well.
Sam Rhee: True, but we can always do our best in terms of, uh. Doing better. So first thing, wear sunscreen, wear it every day. Doesn't matter what type it is, as long as you're actually liking it and using it. Um, there are, uh, chemical sunscreens, mineral sunscreens, combos. There are some new ones out there available from Asia and Europe that, uh, might be, uh, more to your liking or to your preference.
And, uh. As, uh, Larry said, you can, you can do a lot by helping yourself out and minimizing, uh, sun damage skin cancers, so you don't have to see us in the office so often.
Lawrence Tong: That's right, and do
Sam Rhee: thought?
Lawrence Tong: Do it early. Don't wait until it's too late. Once it's, once it's too late. It's too late.
Sam Rhee: that's exactly so profound, Larry. I love that. Alright, thank you so much and uh, until next time, we'll see you then.
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