S06E117 BISON 15 - Navigating CrossFit Gym Ownership Stages - David Syvertsen
Guest David Syvertsen @davesy85 discusses the real stages of gym ownership, from the first dream to the day you finally trust other people to carry the culture.
Hiring, delegation, money, and friendship are all discussed, especially how we keep that internal barometer steady with shifting work and life priorities.
• the dreamer stage and the moment it becomes relentless doing
• why not knowing the full difficulty can be an advantage
• “burn the boats” commitment paired with family support
• growth and hiring: more people mean more problems
• the single trait we value most in coaches
• handing off your “baby” while staying accountable
• owner versus employee and the tension around pay and loyalty
• using role-reversal to deliver feedback without damaging relationships
• what is the fastest way to clear the tangle in work communications
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TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Sam Rhee (00:01.577)
All right, welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees. I have with me probably the person that I have spoken to the most in my entire life on podcasts, and that is coach and owner David Syvertsen so this is the inaugural episode of the Bison 15, which is sort of the name that I've put on it. If you have a better idea what to call it, let me know. Basically, it's a quick hitting. Maybe you know, we're gonna try to keep it to 15.
David Syvertsen (00:10.584)
Yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (00:28.509)
every time about a single topic, something that is interesting, personal, and fitness related. So I think most of us know David well. And if you don't, look him up, check him out. he is owner and coach at CrossFit Bison, the gym that I've been at for fourteen years. and so let's just get right into it. let me explain let
David Syvertsen (00:55.299)
Yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (00:57.095)
Let me let David explain what the topic is and and then start right away.
David Syvertsen (01:02.7)
Yeah, I I didn't really wanna go into like a life story, CrossFit start story. Those are really interesting, but I just feel like mine isn't. So I would say one th perspective I can bring, because you're I know you're gonna interview a lot of different people that a lot of people can't echo. They can't echo what I'm gonna talk about here. Just it's the the different stages of being a gym owner. And
Cross It Bison Ownership technically started in 2012, 2013. We opened in 2014. We just opened up another gym a little over a year ago. And I reflect on it all the time, A, to make things better, B to make sure my life is set up the way I want it to be set up, of all these different stages and the mistakes that you make along the way and how they can.
improve things for your life, the gym's life, the people that work for the gym and the people that pay to go to the gym. You you have to kind of know what stage you're in and what you can do to improve that. And I've just done a have done a lot of reflecting on that, especially over the last two to three years as things have changed there. My role has changed there. And it's I I do think there's some interesting nuggets in there that we can dive into. But within fifteen minutes, don't drag it on, Dave.
Dr. Sam Rhee (02:09.653)
I agree. We'll we'll keep we'll do our best. I would say this is relevant for a lot of people, not just who own gyms, but who go through life. Like there are different stages. And even as an athlete, I'm pretty sure anyone who's been fitnessing for a couple of years can go through different stages and sort of transition. And if you've ever had a business, a job, anything where you've been putting a lot of your time, effort and
focus on you could you you yourself might see these same stages apply to you in your life as well.
David Syvertsen (02:45.368)
Absolutely.
Dr. Sam Rhee (02:47.861)
So let's go for it.
David Syvertsen (02:48.15)
So yeah, let's go for it. I I I think phase one, we're we're all in this phase at some point. It could be your fitness, the physique you're pursuing, the competitive goals you're pursuing, or a business, career, whatever. And it's the dreamer. and the dreamer is someone who who wants the thing, right? But you don't know exactly how to get there. You just know what you want. I remember looking at spaces in two thousand twelve and two thousand thirteen.
Because I left my job thinking we were gonna open up in two weeks, and 18 months later we still weren't open. But I remember looking in spaces and dreaming of what it would be like. Like the colors, the barbells, the noise, the dozens of people you would have in your gym on week number two, right? Like you you just dream and dream and dream. But the the negative behind the dreamer, it's to quote Rudy, there are dreamers and doers. And everyone is a dreamer at some point, but very few turn into doers. And
When you start a business, this is why a lot of businesses statistically they don't make it past two years. A lot of them don't make it past a year because at some point you realize you really didn't know what you were doing. And in some ways, that's an advantage. You don't know what you don't know. And you just wake up and you get the job done that day. You wake up, you do it again. but the repetitiveness and the relentless
kind of feel to especially owning a gym that's open three hundred and sixty-three days a year as early as five a back in the day as late as nine thirty PM you you just have to kind of move forward every single day and that's where you become a doer or you don't and and the place closes down. And those days it's almost like having a baby where you you're so kind of away from reality, you just don't even know what the next day is gonna bring, the next hour, but you just
Chip away like a long cross at workout, one rep at a time. Like Murph tomorrow, right? One rep at a time, you'll eventually get there. And that is where I think you really do kind of earn your stripes as an owner of a business or someone that's pursuing a specific goal with their weight loss or their physique, right? It's you prove it to yourself in that first year, and that and you start becoming a doer rather than just a dreamer.
Dr. Sam Rhee (04:59.945)
Let me ask you this. So, like you said, in some ways it's an advantage that you actually don't even know this Herculean task that you're about to undertake. is there anything in retrospect that you wish you had known in terms of not like all the details, but like in terms of the effort? Because or would it or is it literally just better, just that you didn't know and you just had to handle it?
David Syvertsen (05:26.626)
I'll tell you what, if someone said if Ash and I wanted to move to a different state, let's say Texas, I've had someone down there saying you've got to move down to Texas and open up a crosset down here. I have I don't think I could do it again. I don't think I could start a gym from scratch again because I know it's coming and I know how hard it is. You're getting home at 9 30, 10, eating dinner, waking up at 3 34, hoping people come to the gym. You constantly feel like you're selling. There's a lot of stress associated with it. And
I don't, I wouldn't want to go back and know what's coming. So I really wouldn't change much because as hard as it was, I do think it adds a l that's where you learn how to run a gym. That's where you learn how to program, how to scale things, how to set up the gym, how to set up a staff, how to program, how to schedule. So I I w I don't regret anything about the past, but I don't think I could do it again. So to answer your question, I really wouldn't want to take myself now, go back to 2014 and tell Dave.
How to do it. I'd rather him just learn him learn it on his own because I do think that's the best way to to kind of raise the bar at that gym.
Dr. Sam Rhee (06:32.758)
I mean, the other question I have for you is that you basically burnt your boats at the shore. Like you did you quit your job. You had literally no backup options. It's either this gym was gonna work for you, or you're gonna like have to start a job seeking process all over again. So, in in retrospect, was that the way that you have to kind of get these endeavors going? Because if you have a backup option where like
David Syvertsen (06:50.923)
Absolutely, yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (06:59.549)
If it got too crazy, you could just kinda like slip out the side door. You like, was that what forced you to actually succeed in this thing?
David Syvertsen (07:07.542)
Yeah, I mean, I think it also comes down to in belief in what you're selling, belief in the product. Like I knew CrossFit, I knew bison would work well enough. I never at any point, even when we we've had bad months and bad years and bad quarters, I've never thought it wouldn't work. So that was, yes, a burn the boat type feel. But I also think it's important to know that it had a lot of support from my family, my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, right? Like
If there was a lot of combating there where there just wasn't belief in me, right? Because you do have you do go back and forth with how much you believe in yourself. Right. You could talk about burning the ships and I'm gonna get there no matter what. You have self-doubt. I had self-doubt. But when you have those group of people that tight knit circle around you, especially family and people you live with, that are constantly there through good times and bad, it is a little easier to know that there is there are better days coming.
And I don't think I've ever lost that belief when I was in that dreamer stage when you're there seven days a week, early in the morning, late at night, is that i i if you really do believe in it and the people around you believe in it, it does make it a lot easier to get through any sort of rough time.
Dr. Sam Rhee (08:13.885)
What was the next stage after the dreamer stage?
David Syvertsen (08:16.281)
So the growth hiring stage, right? And this is where you're getting to a point where there is enough money to come in to pay people to also coach classes or do some other secondary type work. And we've made a few kind of like hiccups. Chris and I made a few mistakes early on of like who to bring in and and what to do, because you're just pursuing anything that's gonna enhance the product. But again, you're also learning on the fly. So no regrets there. But the growth hiring stage is now like.
Both members and staff, you have more people, which which offers a lot more help, a different version of yourself. Meaning, like you wouldn't want me coaching every single class or Chris coaching every single class back in the day. Eventually, you want a different flavor in front of the room. So you bring more people in that have traits that I'm not good at, or traits that I struggle with, or Chris struggled with. So more people. You also get more members. You need more members. If that doesn't happen, the business is not gonna work.
With more members and more people come more responsibility and I hate to say it, more problems. More people that without a doubt equals more problems. So that's like that next stage of how do you manage that, right? That's when the the storms, if you will, if you want to keep that ship's analogy going, that's when the storms start to come. The boat starts rocking left and right, up and down. You can't always predict things, you can't control things the way you used to. And how you manage that, you're still steering the ship, but you can't control every turn.
That's where it that that was that next stage. That's where it burns out or it really gets people knowing, all right, do I want to do this as a full time career or do I want this to be something that is on the side? Because that's something that just adds another layer of work, responsibility, and and yeah, stress.
Dr. Sam Rhee (10:00.499)
So you went, I and I remember this also, like from handling everything from soup to nuts to now also starting to manage people. And like you said, because you hired them, let me ask you, now that you've hired a bunch of people, if you had to give me one thing, I know there are probably like five or six things you really think about, but what is the number one thing that worked to help you figure out who to hire?
David Syvertsen (10:27.341)
Yeah, yeah, we we've talked about that a lot over the years. We still talk about it to this day, right? And I I think I have settled on if I had to say there are five answers probably, but if I had to settle on one, it's truly people that are there for others more than they are there for themselves. And they're they're glad to sacrifice the pull-up bar during Murph tomorrow so that someone else can have it. They're glad to cut their workout short so they can hang the American flags in the gym. And like again.
Dr. Sam Rhee (10:29.843)
Yeah. All the time.
David Syvertsen (10:53.923)
That's I'm just that's it fresh in my memory because I Adam Ramsey did that today for Liz. Like Adam didn't have to do that, but he usually helps Liz out. And that's that's a trait that Adam has that we also often use him as a poster boy for what we look for trait-wise. And he is he's a good example of someone and that is just he's always there for other people. Now he comes and works out by himself, he does his thing, he is there to escape his own, you know, stress of life and get his release.
But his base layer that he is there to really enhance the place, which at the end of the day is just to make it better for other people. And that's why I like to watch people operate at Bison as a member in an ideal world for a year or two. Because anyone can fake it for a short amount of time. But the more time, the more situations, two trips around the sun with the open, how they act, good days and bad, how they act when they're injured, how they backed when they have stress in their life.
Does it really have a negative impact on the gym? Like can you feel that negative energy or can you do you know they can overcome it and say, hey, I have a responsibility here to make it better for everyone else, member or not, our coach or not? And I would say that that's the underlying trait. Do they make it better for other people? Do they feel like it's an actual responsibility?
Dr. Sam Rhee (12:10.399)
What number coach was Ramson as a hire? Was he
David Syvertsen (12:15.137)
He it was it was Liz Terra Storms. I think he was number four. yeah, if you're not gonna include myself, Chris and Ashley, who were like kind of the OG coaches of the place. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (12:20.329)
Wow, that's pretty
Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Early early win on that one. There you go.
David Syvertsen (12:29.059)
Yes, yeah. That was again it and I really do think like even our recent hires, I I kinda always hold, you know, Liz and I talk about this all the time when we talk about prospective coaches, it's like you kinda hold certain people, like that's the barometer. And that's a really tough barometer to chase. But when someone reaches that barometer, you know odds are it's gonna work out.
Dr. Sam Rhee (12:41.749)
Mm.
Dr. Sam Rhee (12:49.449)
All right. After the growth hiring, what's the next phase after that?
David Syvertsen (12:53.293)
Delegation, and this is where I've I can t to this day, I I do feel like I'm improving here, but I've I've been a little slow on this. I've struggled. I I have it written down that this is like handing off roles and quote your baby to others while maintaining control to a point. So it could be coaching classes, it could be next level program, it could be training people's teenagers and kids, all these things, right? You know, not
I would say nobody knows how much you've put into it since the beginning. And they don't need to, right? We all have our own personal things that the world doesn't need to know, right? But they're there, I did view the gym as a long time as like my kid. And to a point I still do. I feel like it's in the teenager going into college phase where you kind of have to like let it go a little bit, but you still reel it in when you need to. You still have an i idea of what's going on. And
Part of that is having other people who also have other things going on in their life. Most of them, this is not their full-time job. They have a full-time job and kids and a mortgage, all that, where you have to kind of hand off this responsibility to them, knowing it's not their top priority. It's similar to hiring a babysitter. You know, Ash and I, our first time giving a babysitter for Brock and us going out for a dinner, we didn't even have fun because you're you're kind of worried. You feel like you did something wrong, you feel guilty in a way.
And you know, you know no one's gonna care after your kid the way you do. Now I've watched people's kids before and you know it's very stressful to the point where you watch them like a hawk, but it's still it's not the same. When you're on the other side of it, it's no different than the gym. Like when when I'm sleeping at night and feeling great, do I really know that the people there are like really, you know, having a conversation with the new person? They're reaching out to someone that left the gym a month or two ago, and then they don't it's not really they don't care as much, right? And they don't need to. It's not their business, but
That that's been tough for me, but it's yeah at some point you have to trust the people that are there and the people that you have hired and and the loyalty factor because we've showed loyalty to them and we've gotten a lot of loyalty back as well. And I I don't take that for granted. So that's that's the next stage of gym ownership.
Dr. Sam Rhee (14:59.209)
You know, it's funny because we've gone to CrossFit affiliate s seminars and they've has they've said in a very dispassionate sort of analytical business way, if you can't walk away from your business and have it still run, you haven't built your business properly. And at when I first heard that, I said that makes total sense. But then on the other hand, I also feel like that is also not.
I I'm starting to turn a little bit. I don't think that's always the best way to think about your business. Like, you know, not every you're not private like stupid private equity where you're just like learning, like like ready to turn over a business and flip it and somehow like make a profit. Like, like you said, if you built a business, like your your intrinsic DNA, your your mindset, you know, who you are is built into that business.
And there's no way if you really legitimately built a business on your own that it's going to be the same if you walk away or you're there. And and I s I've seen that, especially at CrossFit Bison. But like you said, the the key is to be able to trust. I see you, Brock. How are you, Brocky? I see I I see you finding that balance, which is a very difficult balance. And and I think the the key to that has been.
David Syvertsen (15:54.768)
Absolutely.
David Syvertsen (16:02.543)
Right.
David Syvertsen (16:19.951)
Yes.
Dr. Sam Rhee (16:23.943)
you've had to you've been forced to do that, right? So you have a son, you have other responsibilities and obligations. And before you know before that it was like competing, on a and which you still do on a high level. So you have other priorities which now you have to sort of navigate how much can you do this and still do something else. And and so let me ask you, now that you've been doing more sports with Brock, who I see right behind you,
David Syvertsen (16:46.106)
Yeah.
David Syvertsen (16:51.737)
Yep, screen.
Dr. Sam Rhee (16:52.647)
It's it's th this is what I'm talking about, priorities, right? Like you have to balance it. Like you're on a podcast, but you also have your son that you have to manage. And so w what is one tip that you can give me about about handling that?
David Syvertsen (16:55.076)
Yeah.
David Syvertsen (17:05.562)
Ooh man. I mean these are the conversations I have in my head the most right now. So I don't wanna come across as the know it all, but I I will say that man, I don't know if this is gonna apply, but I I know deep down where where the head's at and where my heart is, where my priorities are. And I know there's a perception thing, Brock Step. I know there's a perception that 'cause I've heard that I've had this said to me and it's not in a combative way at all. It's you're not around as much anymore. I'm like, like that's
Dr. Sam Rhee (17:20.927)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. It's okay. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Sam Rhee (17:33.363)
Of course.
David Syvertsen (17:35.097)
It's partially true. I just also go at times. Like these are people that come in the morning a lot that I've been working out at night a lot. So those people are saying, I noticed you're here at night more. I was like, that's cool. That's nice to hear. People in the morning, like, you're not here as much. I'm like, well, there's there's the other, you know, 80% of the day that I do show up for there. So there's a perception that you want people to know you're still involved and you're still passionate about it and you still want to do everything you can to make it the best possible place in the world for people to to exercise and and find others. But
Dr. Sam Rhee (17:50.685)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Sam Rhee (17:56.874)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
David Syvertsen (18:04.925)
there are objective things that keep me from going as much as I used to. And one of them is this guy that's that's kind of holding on to my arm right now. And I I think I sleep well at night. That that's kind of where and that that's an internal thing where I when I listen to people talk, you can kind of tell that if I was someone that didn't want to go as much, but I wanted the perception that I went, I would be stressing about it a lot.
Dr. Sam Rhee (18:12.181)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Sam Rhee (18:15.54)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Sam Rhee (18:25.041)
Mm-hmm.
David Syvertsen (18:29.211)
But right now, like I know as much I do as much as I can to get there whenever I can, whether it's to help a coach put away boxes at night and set up for the next morning, whether it's to move my workout schedule around, or I try to cover for different times for the s I could easily hire someone to coach that. But I wanted to go see those people I haven't coached in a while. And though those are the things that I know again that I do that I don't need to announce to the world, but that helps me at night know that I'm putting my best foot forward.
Dr. Sam Rhee (18:34.363)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Dr. Sam Rhee (18:44.789)
Mm-hmm.
David Syvertsen (18:56.677)
Both as a father, as a husband, and as a gym owner.
Dr. Sam Rhee (18:57.981)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you use an internal barometer, regardless of what people say or like the comments you get, if you know personally that you are trying your best to balance it and doing your best for that, and you can sleep at night, you're good.
David Syvertsen (19:02.213)
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
David Syvertsen (19:09.565)
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And that's why like my stress levels are there with everyone, but it's never am I doing enough for the gym. I've never ever had to question that. And I I'm proud of that.
Dr. Sam Rhee (19:16.853)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Sam Rhee (19:21.589)
Got it. Okay. Next stage.
David Syvertsen (19:25.039)
Next stage is the last one. And we're talking, okay. being an owner versus employee. Okay. So this is where and and balance and the mix of the two. So at some point, this is something I took away from that seminar we went to is you know, do you own a business or do you own a job? And that was a line that stuck with me. It's like I actually am like asked myself in that moment, like, do I actually own a gym or do I own a job? And does it really matter? Not necessarily. Again, it's kind of internal, my internal barometer.
But what what's hard about this is you have to balance friendships with business. And they often contradict each other. we can bring up money. I mean, that's the thing that everyone needs to talk about, right? I mean, how many people do at some point control how much money you bring home to your family, but you also control how much money everyone else brings home to their family? And where do you draw the line? You can come up with equations and algorithms that AI can generate for you, or you can ask other gym owners.
Dr. Sam Rhee (19:59.093)
Mm.
David Syvertsen (20:21.701)
But your bills are your bills and their bills are their bills and the relationships, they're there. And these are raw relationships. And, you know, we've known some of these people, us included, for over a decade now. And there are high there are good times and bads with any relationship that lasts that long. And it's it's a re it's a struggle to really come up with the objective policy of how you pay people and how much you pay yourself and how much you dish out for the gym versus dish out to employees, right? And you know, the the members of our community.
deserve new equipment when when stuff starts to break down. But the map the coaches of our community, who are the rock stars of of the place, who really are the wheels that we really drive on, they deserve money. They deserve raises. They deserve the opportunity to make more money. And you also go hang out with each other on the weekends or your kids are hanging out with each other. And it it's tough. That that's one thing that kind of sucks about being a gym owner, that you don't have a an equation that falls out of thin air and says this is what everyone
Dr. Sam Rhee (21:09.365)
Mm-hmm.
David Syvertsen (21:21.307)
takes home. It you have to decide that. And there have there's a blend of selfishness to it and also selflessness to it that you have to kind of be good at bouncing. Because if you don't, a lot of people leave. And I take a lot of pride in the fact that I'm Don Fall and Austin Maliella said this to us when they came out to the announcement. At that point, 10 years in, we've never lost a coach. You know, and and in the roles and the people that have lost the coach now have kind of just left either cross it or left community, not on bad terms. And that
to me says we're doing it right because as things get busier with people's lives, they're not just leaving at some point unless other life circumstances get in the way. It it's not, hey, they're not taking care of me enough. And so that that's a really tough thing to do. And I think a coach can relate to that, right? When you coach a class and a friend is in your class and they're being disruptive, how do you respond to it? You know, can you tell them to shut up or are you afraid it's gonna affect your Friday night plans? So that that's pretty stuff. That's
Dr. Sam Rhee (22:08.553)
I have.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
David Syvertsen (22:19.643)
Pretty hard stuff to deal with. And that's where when I talk to current gym owners that have been doing this for over 10 years, that's the burnout stage. It's that you have a relationship, but you don't know how real it is because it's partially dependent on the business, right? When someone leaves the gym that's been with you for 10 to 12 years, or you know, whatever, it could be five years, they leave the gym and now all of a sudden you don't talk anymore. It's like, well, was that a real friendship? So now you start questioning, are my other friendships real? Or the is this just
Dr. Sam Rhee (22:31.357)
Mm.
David Syvertsen (22:49.817)
A business transaction.
Dr. Sam Rhee (22:51.891)
You know, that that makes me think about a couple of things. It is really hard to work like most businesses don't like there are some businesses that have their friends involved, but most CrossFit gyms that I know of have a lot of close relationships with the people involved, like the coaches. and anytime you try to make a change in that as you get bigger, there's always that accusation that you don't care as much. and let's
Take a let's face it, there are other people that naturally try to take advantage of the fact that you are friends. And and so so drawing that line between friendship and also like what quote doing the right thing as a as a business or or to make your business better is is really hard. And and I would say the first thing I would want to ask, well the first thing is I w I wanna say an anecdote. So the first thing I was thinking about is like as a
David Syvertsen (23:26.912)
yeah. Absolutely. Yep.
David Syvertsen (23:35.045)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (23:49.021)
As a coach or someone who has a friend in class, like it was really funny. You know, Sasha has been a around a little bit this summer before she's left. And she was gonna post a picture of her and and and Susan doing a workout together. And she was doing thrusters in it. And and I saw the the post or the video, and I was like, the squat was like maybe two inches short. Like, listen, her mobility, she can squat to the ground. And she was just
David Syvertsen (24:12.434)
Hmm.
Dr. Sam Rhee (24:18.461)
like tired, she was moving really hard, like it was a tough workout. But I was like, do I say something or do I say nothing? And I chose at that point to say, you know, like maybe like the thruster depth was like this. And I don't think she was very happy with me. And she ended up I don't think she posted it because in part she was pissed. But on the other hand, like I couldn't let her not know, like, you know, just because I
David Syvertsen (24:45.286)
Right. Yeah. I think you did the right thing. You did the right thing there. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (24:48.317)
I I would want to know if I was, you know what I'm saying? So some of it is like if I'm on the other side of it, I might take offense, but I also want to know, like, if we truly are friends, that you're doing it from a good place in your heart. And I think that so but what do you do when let's suppose and so give me a tip when you have friends, and we've talked about this because when you grew, you brought on additional
David Syvertsen (25:02.608)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (25:15.453)
investment and additional partners, right? So it was Adam Hawkinson, Mike DeSilva and and and me to help. but then sometimes standard business practices are things that we discuss, but then there are also, like you said, considerations that are personal, that are are are, you know, longtime connections. Like what is the number one thing you think about if you have to make a decision about revenue versus say something that that
David Syvertsen (25:17.904)
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (25:45.575)
Is personal.
David Syvertsen (25:47.069)
Good question. I I think the first thing I would say is most people can't do it. I'm just like from my experience, most people can't separate friendship and business. Some people can. So there is hope out there. And but it can develop. Like just like everything. You can't do a muscle up when you start cross it, but you can develop traits that eventually get you there. So when it comes to advice on on what you just asked, I would challenge everyone, and this could be applied to so many different areas of your life, is to
Really try hard when you're on the offensive side, meaning you want to tell someone you didn't squat low enough, right? Try the hardest you possibly can. That if you were on the other side of that, how would you react? And not just what you would think, because you can't expect others to read your mind. That's not fair. How would you actually outwardly react? That if someone came to you and said, like, hey, in the middle of a workout or in the middle of an emotional state,
Your elbows aren't getting through, your chin didn't get over the bar, your elbows didn't lock out, you didn't extend on a burpee. And try to put yourself in that scenario and and pretend. Like play make pretend. I do this all the time. I play out situations in my head all the time to the point where Ash is like, What are you doing? I'm like, sorry, I was in a different world for a sec. But what how would you react to that? And be as real as possible because you're not trying to impress anyone when you're just playing a game inside your head. What how would you actually react? And I think that's something you can train yourself to do.
And it makes you feel a little bit better about being on the offensive side. So that and if you truly say, like, hey, I would actually want to hear that. I I even now it's up to the other person to deliver it correctly. Like if you went to Sasha and started belittling her and making fun of her, that's that's a wrong, that's a bad job by you. But if you if someone if I came to you the next bison workout, Sam, like you're not squatting all the way down. Like I'm not putting RX next to your name on the board. How would you react? And be real.
Dr. Sam Rhee (27:23.9)
yes.
David Syvertsen (27:36.645)
Only you do know how you would react. And there's a self-control component to that that Yes, you know, I'm never I'm never coming back. Yeah. And exactly. So if you feel that way, I think you should feel fine about being on the offensive side to it. And you know, I can look instead of always talking about Sasha or other people, like our ownership group, it's been a couple years now. We have definitely had like some real, like real like arguments with each other, like through text, through
Dr. Sam Rhee (27:40.597)
How dare you? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, I would I would be thank I mean I'd be embarrassed but thankful. Let's put it that way.
David Syvertsen (28:05.062)
Zoom th in person, like shouting, right? And you don't always like those moments and you need some time to step away from them. But at the end of the day, I think that you come back and be like, Hey, I needed to hear that, or he needed to hear that. And if we all have the same goal, if you and Sasha have the same goal of just you know being fit and being mobile and doing things the right way, there really can't be this this thing that explodes the relationship. If it does explode the relationship, if that's what you're truly afraid of.
I think it's better to rip the band-aid off and just say it's not real. It's just not it's not a real relationship. Like if you and I got into an argument about, you know, what we should do with the extra four thousand dollars we have and we fight and all of a sudden we can't talk to each other, then look, it's not a real relationship because we've been through a lot together. We've to talked a lot to each other. We I think we want the same goals for the business, for ourselves as we grow. And that should always kind of circle back to that is the goal. You know, I don't need
A self-esteem boost from Sam every two weeks and vice versa. But we do need to kind of make sure that we're pushing each other. And to be pushed, this is why I'm I'm jealous of NFL coaches and Nick Saban, these guys. They can really get after someone and know that that guy's not leaving. Because, you know, whether it's college education, whether they're trying to get to the NFL, that Nick Saban is doing what he thinks is best for that person long term. Even though you can't see it in the moment, that is the goal. And I think when I'm around people like that.
Owners, coaches, friends, you really don't have a right to just step away from it just because you were felt uncomfortable in a moment.
Dr. Sam Rhee (29:40.053)
Yeah. I I agree with that a thousand percent. I also feel like as as an owner, as a coach, the longer I've been doing this, the more grace I give myself. Like I realize I have vi I am very imperfect. I make a lot of mistakes, both coaching, both making decisions, giving advice, talking, and I d I I try to learn from it, but I try to improve and then keep moving. If I perseverate on any one thing I've realized, it like it locks me up. So I think for for for
David Syvertsen (30:05.863)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (30:09.269)
for us as a group and as a gym, like we have to we have to acknowledge we are not always perfect with what we do, but we're we're moving and and learning and and and you just can't dwell on on anything. You just get better.
David Syvertsen (30:26.659)
Well yeah, the last thing I'll say on that is that we we make an effort to talk to meet in person every month. And I'm pretty sure we haven't missed a meeting since. And we've moved them around. And now I'm doing that with Liz. And now I we do that with Liz and Adam and I meet like it's like when you get a face to face time and really talk things out, I think that's where the cloudiness of situations can disappear. It's not always positive, it's it's not always negative either.
Dr. Sam Rhee (30:33.129)
Yes. Yes.
Dr. Sam Rhee (30:49.353)
Hmm.
David Syvertsen (30:54.301)
But I think the gray, the unknown, is where the worst stuff happens. So if you can have a face-to-face conversation, I do think it kind of brings everything and everyone back to, okay, we are on the same team. We do want the same goal. You can't do that as a gym owner with every single employee or every single member of the gym, but you can try you can try to make more FaceTime possible for everyone. And I think that has
Dr. Sam Rhee (30:57.737)
Yes.
Dr. Sam Rhee (31:19.775)
Yes.
David Syvertsen (31:21.521)
That's something I've learned in this fourth phase of being a gym owner, is that is probably a lot more important than you initially think.
Dr. Sam Rhee (31:28.637)
I would think that's the best tip is like you said, in that fourth phase, the if you not are not sure if it's on cloudy, if you're having debates about business versus friendship and all that, like more communication, like you said, tends to clarify and and and make make people better. So I really appreciate that. That's a that's a that's probably the best point actually out of the whole thing, I would say, out of this whole discussion. So is there anything else
David Syvertsen (31:51.697)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Sam Rhee (31:57.203)
within this that you want to sort of leave us with from this discussion.
David Syvertsen (32:02.513)
Yeah, I mean the last thing I'll say, whether it's gym owner, owning business, pursuing your own goals, like I I think the no matter what, as things around you change, including this guy right here, right? The the the passion, it needs to be real. It's gotta be there. Is it 247-365? Absolutely not. But it you have to self-calibrate sometimes. Like, do you truly love it? Like I'm ex I'm so excited for Murph tomorrow, even though I'm probably gonna be on five hours of sleep. Like, and I can't wait for it. I can't wait for the bison ball. I can't wait for the next year's open for a lot of different reasons.
Dr. Sam Rhee (32:11.529)
Yep. Yeah.
David Syvertsen (32:32.147)
And I think you have to be honest with yourself about how passionate you are about pursuing that. Because if you fake it or you lie to yourself about it, I think it's gonna have a negative impact on others. And the first thing we look for in the group's growth hiring stage is how much you're in it for other people. And that in it for other people, that that flame is gonna start to dampen a little bit because if you're if you're faking it. So I think that needs to every now and then.
You look inward and say, like, all right, how much do I really love this and what it can be? Even though the day-to-day can can you can struggle sometimes. And we go, that that's the just self-calibrate all the time. How much do you truly love?
Dr. Sam Rhee (33:10.133)
That is probably one of the best pieces that of advice I should take to heart myself. and that resonates with me. So David, I know it's it's a little longer than 15, it's a double wide again. It's it's 33, but that's okay. I think there's a yeah, there's a lot in here that I think was really important to unpack and and and think about. So thank you so much, David. this episode will probably be released a week or after Murph. So I would hope that by the time people listen to this,
David Syvertsen (33:16.956)
Awesome.
David Syvertsen (33:20.723)
We'll get better.
Dr. Sam Rhee (33:37.383)
Everyone has recovered. They feel awesome. Nobody ripped. It was it was a a beautiful day. and thank you again. I really appreciate, man.
David Syvertsen (33:46.877)
Thank you, Sam.
